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Sexuality in General

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LoveWins	Sexuality in General	Lead	[-]
Posts: 139 (05/29/07 07:42:25) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None Greetings, I realize that this is a board targeted at the issues of Bahai individuals dealing with same sex attraction. However, has anyone thought of the fact that Bahais rarely, if ever, discuss the issue of sexuality in general? I know that the official stance is that this society overemphasizes sex. But, IMO, unless the topic of sexuality is addressed head on, Bahais will be little equipped to deal with the avalanche of pressure comming from the general society. Hence we get statements such as this from wikipedia: "While in authoritative teachings homosexuality is described as a condition which an individual should control and overcome, Bah's are left to apply the teachings at their own discretion, and are discouraged from singling out homosexuality over other transgressions, such as the consumption of alcohol, or heterosexual promiscuity." Ignoring the somewhat offensive comparison to alcohol consumption, we are left with a comparison of homosexual relationships with heterosexual 'promiscuity' (= sex out of wedlock?). This is definitively NOT dealt with at all in the community! In my experience, everyone has 'looked the other way' when single pregnant Bahais have come on the scene. In fact, I've met a woman who has born 4 daughters out of wedlock. Everyone adores the children and the mother, though she tends to stay away from official participation, is definitely NOT condemned. If that is how we are to treat homosexuals, it's a step in the right direction IMO. However, more discussion and self consciousness of what we are doing in these instances is necessary. WHY is the woman still accepted yet open gays might meet with more resistance (I have yet to meet an openly gay couple in the faith so I'm not sure about that last point)? WHY can't we discuss these things tit for tat in a mature, realistic fashion? Peace.
LoveWins	Continued....	#1	[-]
Posts: 139 (05/29/07 08:38:57) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I also know of a male Bahai who I'm pretty sure had a child outside of wedlock. He's pretty visible in the community, and in fact, brings his daughter to Bahai classes whenever he is in town..... So 'promiscuity' is obvious (and unpunished/not dealt with) with regards to both males and females in my community. Peace.
LoveWins	My current condition of thought...	#2	[-]
Posts: 139 (05/29/07 08:40:00) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Greetings, Point blank. I am personally struggling with the sexuality ordianances of the faith. I find them EXTREMELY difficult to put into practice. I am single and heterosexual with strong urges to have sex outside of marriage (many of which I have succumed to). Hence my issue, I feel, is very similar to what actively gay Bahais are enduring. I realize that one day I my status may change from single to married. Hence I may not have this issue over my head forever technically. But how could I look my future children and/or possibly non-Bahai husband in the eye and say that I'm a practicing Bahai when I have done such things? I can't and I won't. I'm slowly distancing myself from official involvement in the Bahai community. I've been eliminated from my ATC anyway. I think that's a sign from the Creator that I'm on the right track. Further, I plan to avoid feast as much as possible. I'm currently in a situation where I'm renting in a Bahai household. However, as soon as I move away, I plan to start the process of breaking free of official membership..... After this though, I think my days of official membership in ANYTHING are over. I plan to attend UU events (and maybe a few Bahai ones, though I feel like if I do that too much, there would be too much pressure among Bahais for me to actually offically rejoin the community). I plan to have any children that I have attend both UU and Bahai classes (if any exist where I live). Mostly, I plan to live and let live. This letting go will be a gradual process. But I think that it is the only decision that I can ethically make. I still believe in Bahaullah. I just think that His descendants who really drove home the interpretations on sexuality derived from the Aqdas were different from Him. They were NOT Manifestations of God by their own admission. Hence they were NOT perfect instruments of God like He and the Bab were. They weren't (and aren't) perfect. Nor were/are ALL of their interpretations perfect even as much as Bahaullah has been guiding them.....They were/are imperfect vessels, hence their foresight wasn't (isn't) as crystal clear as that of Bahaullah's and the Bab's. Does this view change my attitude towards Bahais that CAN hack it? No. I have nothing but respect for Bahais (both gay and straight) whose consciouses allow them to stay the course. But I'm starting to gather that I can't stay this course without dispising myself as an utter hypocrite. Peace.
swgay	Re: Sexuality in General	#3	[-]
Posts: 131 (05/29/07 20:11:50) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I agree with this. There is a problem with the approach to sexuality in the faith in general. Having grown up a Baha'i, I am quite aware of it. For example, the teaching regarding no sex before marriage is bandied about with very little thought about the reality of life for teenagers -- or for that matter, odler people who are single. I can tell you one of the biggest surprises to me growing up Baha'i was figuring out there really wasn't any Baha'i teen I knew (other than myself) who had abstained from sex. At all the youth conferences, after the big "talks" -- the sexual orgies began. There was also significant drug use. Most Baha'i parents were completely unaware their kids were having sex and using drugs, blinded by the fact that they had taught them the Baha'i law on these issues. It was and is so unbelievably naive, and so dangerous to assume your children are following these over simplified teachings. No Baha'i kid I knew felt comfortable talking to their parent or any Baha'i about what they were really feeling and doing. It's like the fundamentalist Christians today who do not want sex ed or condoms handed out in schools because they believe it 'promotes' sex among teens. That is naive thinking that has led this nation into a great deal of trouble. The Baha'i faith needs to grow up about about sex in general, and get over the impression it creates that sex is somehow dirty and evil in most of its expressions. Lack of sexual information and discussion and dealing with the reality of the sexual impulse, especially of youth, leads to the mystification of sex and poor sexual decision making. How many of us would really want our children to marry someone without first understanding their own sexuality and their sexual compatibility with the person they plan to marry? As for why people in the faith are so much more willing to cast a blind eye to children out of wedlock than to gay sex...well, that's easy. Gay sex is clearly the bigger taboo. Gay sex is the last great taboo in our society. In some societies (Iran -- the birthplace of the faith), they execute gay people. It's going on right now in that country. I don't think we as American Baha'is truly understand the influence of Iranian culture in our religion. It's time we took a close look at it. Even the USA, a supposedly open and modern society with the best information in the world, is still struggling with this ancient taboo. It is my personal opinion that when the world in general comes to terms with gay sex...and sex in general, we will be on our way to world peace. Sexual frustration and sexual dissonance (believing one thing and KNOWING another) I believe is at the root of much of the anger and hate in the world today. Many societies do not allow their young people to express themselves sexually and in a healthy way; so it comes out in very unhealthy and angry and violent ways. It's why we have so much sexual abuse in families, so much domestic violence and so much war. The sexual impulse is that strong. We cannot afford as a planet to continue being so childish and naive about it.
LoveWins	I agree.	#4	[-]
Posts: 139 (06/02/07 06:15:43) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"The sexual impulse is that strong. We cannot afford as a planet to continue being so childish and naive about it." I agree. If we could openly and politely discuss our urges. Purge the guilt and objectively contemplate our choices in this area. The world (and the individual psyche) would be much healthier AND more at peace with itself. Thanks.
LoveWins	Still Here....	#5	[-]
Posts: 139 (07/20/07 16:58:33) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Well, now I see why it is so hard for some to leave the faith. I can't seem to let go. So I guess I'm going to continue in the struggle....... Peace.
Godsgifttomankind		#6	[-]
Posts: 23 (03/09/08 15:33:45) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hello LoveWins and swgay and thank-you for sharing your thoughts, You both are definite pioneers in this challenging field of compulsion and how it is going to be moved from estrangement to marriage within the confines of the world Bahai community. The greater challenge you have been speaking about is how does the issue of sexuality in general move from the field of taboo to an accepted consultation topic without those in a position of authority feeling that they have compromised the values of their own beliefs? The answer I believe has little to do with belief and more to do with faithfulness, we can all be faithful to God while accepting people for who they are and knowing that he created each of us exactly as he wanted us to be. It is our job to love one another, not to think for one moment that we are judge, jury and executioner of people that do not conform to the Laws of God. the greatest battle that stands in front of each one of us is coming to terms with our own shortness when it comes to obedience to the Law. We can pick and choose the Laws that we choose to follow but at no point can we ever think that we are capable of total obedience. The faith is going to need individuals such as yourselves who understand these issues and that can be used by God to lovingly guide those within the Bahai community to deal with their prejudices towards people of diverse sexual orientation that will be entering the communities in greater and greater numbers. This is not an issue that is going to disappear or that the community has the possibility of escaping. We find ourselves sitting at the forefront of this issue and it is not a matter of coincidence that such is the case. Raise up the banner for it is time that this form of prejudice be added in under the title "all forms of prejudice". His Faithful Servant David.
ninefeathers	Re:sexuality in general	#7	[-]
Posts: 26 (03/16/08 10:04:58) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I agree with what you say swgay about sexual abuse in families and its link to repression of knowledge or discourse as well as with the communities naive approach to sexuality. And its interesting the double standard with respect to heterosexuals and homosexuals. I'm afraid the Baha'i community is very very far behind in many social matters and really have little understanding about many issues including incest, who the perpetrator is and who the victim is, birth control, teenage culture and so on. For example with regards to birth control, I cant tell you how many educated Bahai's I know who within marriage let lust and ignorance bring about unexpected pregnancies and the foolishness around becoming pregnant within marriage because of ignorance around birth control is no more loftier than protected sex outside of marriage. Last Edited By: ninefeathers 03/16/08 11:00:35. Edited 1 times.

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