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Title of this Website Misleading

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ninefeathers	Title of this Website Misleading	Lead	[-]
Posts: 30 (04/12/08 19:32:43) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : lesbian, gay, baha39i, religious, tolerance And again. But really there is no such thing as a gay bahai or at least, the title of this website makes it seem like its all hunky dory and it all just goes together like peaches and cream. It doesn't. For all you readers out there that are not in the Baha'i community and have looked up Wikipedia on this topic. They are lying. The community does not welcome out gays and lesbians ---. There is no safe place for anyone who is in a relationship with the same gender to express that or be open about that in the community. It is not discussed. You are judged. You are out casted. And the community has no groups except for confession style, cure style groups like the one at Louhelen. You are in the ultimate crazy making double bind if you are considering or living or have lived a "lesbian" or "gay" life. If you frequently meet or spend time with baha'is, you must speak as though you have a problem that it was caused by some sort of faulty upbringing or abuse..., if you don't you will be viewed as a covenant breaker, that is, arrogant with respect to Shoghi's writings. If you speak to the issue as if you were a Baha'i you are doomed because you have "a problem" much like a prostitute, an alcoholic, and the like. Then that will be used against you in all notorious ways. Inuendos the worst of which, glances and glares between family members assuming you will also abuse children. For all you non baha'is dont believe what you read in Wikipedia, ....you cannot be gay and Baha'i at the same time no matter what the musings you hear on this board. Its simply is not there in a healthy way. The community, the discourse, the ability to be out and progressive. Its not there. The title of this website is therefore misleading. An oxymoron with respect to the actual state of affairs as they really are in the community.
swgay		#1	[-]
Posts: 128 (04/15/08 23:18:59) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Well you are right when you say you will not in any way be accepted by the Baha'i community if you are openly gay. But I still do think there are many gay people who still ID themselves as Baha'i. Some give up and leave the Faith, some become inactive, some become closeted within the Faith, some marry and hope for the best, and some live celebate. But if you are in an open, honest gay relationship, then there is definitely a problem being accepted in the comunity, yes. I like to put it succinctly -- don't plan on bringing your bf to feast. But I think the name of this site - gay Baha'i is fine. Because it is a place where people who are gay, and are or were Baha'i, can speak to each other and exchange and offer support. I myself am pretty much in the category of having left the Faith...though since I was brought up in it, it is always a part of me. It is part of my cultural/religious heritage. Nothing can really change that. Most everybody in my life knows I am gay; and anyone who asks knows I was raised Baha'i. They also know my being gay is against Bahai law and that I am not an example of a Baha'i which is why I do not participate in the community. I find many people have great curiosity about the religion I was raised in. Most have never heard of it. Many of my gay friends are Catholic, which has pretty much the same law as the Baha'i Faith, so they know what it is like. Can you be a gay Catholic? Not really, but there are MANY of them, including quite a few of the priests. I understand your point though. Its a good discussion.
LoveWins	Too rigid!!	#2	[-]
Posts: 139 (04/21/08 10:20:12) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Yes, The faith is so rigid and brittle in the area of sexuality and gender that it's running the risk of breaking!! So much pressure from the Middle Eastern contingent of the faith to be sexually conservative in ALL ways. After all, if the faith were truly progressing with the times, it would realize that, now that condoms and BCPs are prevelant, the main practical reason behind not having premarital sex has been eliminated. Furthermore, point blank, given the harmony of science and religion, Shoghi Effendi's comments MUST be overruled! Beyond that, it has LONG been known among the truly spiritual that there are NO differences in the capacities and wisdom of women and men....So what is wrong with this system? The covenant was supposed to act as an updating system. But all it does is keep Bahais locked into outdated, oldfashioned modes of thinking. In truth, I think most of these ridiculous ordinances are just a political manuver to safeguard the lives and reputations of Iranian Bahais. This is important because Iran is such an central element of Bahai cultural origins and history. Yet, even by the faith's own admission, Iran is and has been one of the most spiritually corrupt and hypocritical places on the planet!! Why perpetuate such madness by being so limited with regards to sexuality/gender? They need to let the folks in Iran leave the country for their own safety and well being. They can return one day when things change for the better, but for now, their imminent precarious position is what is blocking the faith from being truly progressive IMHO. In this sense, we need to get those folks out of there and other places in the Middle East (ex. Egypt and Israel). It's too decadant and politically caustic to be there. I think that Middle Eastern politics are also the reason behind the overt sexism that Abdul Baha exhibited in limiting the House of Justice to being male only. That's problematic too. Certain major aspects of Middle Eastern culture need serious revamping. They include the above mention issues. Why is the faith participating in such nonsense? That's why I had to leave. Despite all of its attempts to be apolitical, the very presence of the faith in Israel, along with the stances on sexuality and gender for the sake of Middle Eastern traditional reputation, show that the Bahai faith is a highly political entity......And in many cases, it's on the wrong side in terms of eliciting the type of change needed for sustainable world peace. After all, a truly peaceful society, in which ALL are encouraged to dig deep and manifest their true selves in a caring nurturing environment (compared to now that is) would NOT include repressing people's sexuality and/or excluding women from ultimate spiritual leadership. It's a major contradiction that really bothers me. So much so, that I have left the faith in my heart and mind (and plan to leave officially one day). Nonetheless, the ironic thing is that I gained a lot from membership despite these problems. Perhaps the faith can be seen as a corrador that many will pass through on their greater journeys. Perhaps few are meant to be actual lifelong Bahais. Very few. All I can say is that it opened my eyes to Buddhism, and for that I am very grateful. Peace.
ninefeathers	The Faith	#3	[-]
Posts: 31 (05/24/08 08:26:42) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Interesting. I think in all our reflections and moments of processing it is important to constantly return to that special time in history, that incredible force, or impulse or vision between Tahirih, the Bab, the nineteen letters of the living and whatever came over the 20,000 people who wanted to go to war for ideas really, in the end ideas, and the force which over came so man martyrs and even today, more martyrs. Its that wine or that taste or spirit or original wave or wind which is indescribable and irreducable to a set of code of laws or ethics which came after the fact, diluted, and meaningless really next to the original wave which came over the people which actually had to change genders to go to war. There is a taste which the Baha'i Faith has which no other Faith has, a pool as it were, of hope and naive innocence, an energy of sorts. Let the beaurocrats and the podium Baha'i s pontificate. Its not what the Faith really is. The Faith is about love and unity, and not about who has more money, who has more degrees, who goes to more feasts, and who sits on more committees, and who one accidently falls in love with. Certainly, chastity and purity is important, but that applies to everyone, married or not. Only time will tell what the real Baha'i Faith was meant to be which is not its current state.
swgay	What a beautiful statement!	#4	[-]
Posts: 129 (05/26/08 23:41:58) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I have always felt what you say. Thank you for putting it so beautifully.

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